Curse

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 24, 2011, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Regarding #attacks per second:

Those values are seconds per attack, so all we need to do is invert them (1/value).

Normal: 0.4938 attacks/second
25%IAS: 0.6584 a/s
33%IAS: 0.7371 a/s

---

Regarding the last part, multiplying those values as you have done is fine. Don't round off the values (not significantly, as you've done anyway - rounding to two decimal places for ease of calculation should be fine).

Wenspire · Jun 25, 2011, 12:52 AM // 00:52

If that is correct, landing four strikes with 33% IAS takes roughly 5.5s (and 6s at 25%)?

I suppose that isn't such a bad max "recharge" time for a skill. Though, without any added IAS it may be a bit long at 8s unless there are multiple targets involved.

Lishy · Jun 27, 2011, 05:09 PM // 17:09

There's a few ranger skills that caught my eye, honestly. But as my ranger is not too far, I cannot test much of the skill potential. Can anyone confirm to me the usefulness of certain skills?

Expert's Dexterity is an IAS and increases your Marksmanship by 2! I am quite surprised I never see this stance used. Are bow damage that bad that having 17 marksmanship with an IAS is still considered bad? I'm thinking it would be good for maximum damage potential with a Hornbow and Sundering Shot/Penetrating Attack. What do you think? Is this purely a crap skill? And at 17 marksmanship, Zojun's Shot deals +44 damage! Is it that bad? It's stronger than power attack!

It's Warrior's Endurance for bows. Is this a bad skill still? Is there not anything worth spamming with it?

Our old friend BHA! I remember people use to call this awesome! But why did it disappear from use?

Burning Arrow seems like a solid skill. Strikes for +30 damage at 15 marksmanship and has a long burn duration, with short recharge. Could be combined with other degen skills, and maintained on a single target to ensure in a burn based team with They're on Fire paragons that the target will for sure deal less damage, as opposed to an elementalist who runs out of energy easily and has short burn durations?

In contrast to Burning Arrow, here we have IA, which deals nearby AoE damage with burn. Unfortunately, it suffers the drawback of having an unfairly high recharge (Pleeease de-nerf this skill, Anet!) and the burn cannot be maintained. Furthermore, it has a limit of only 3 arrows. Lotsa people I know combine it with Ignite Arrows, but I've always found that skill to be incredibly weak. Does it combine with EBSOH? Can anyone here try that combination? What about other preps?

One source says this skill is epic awesome with preparations, others say this skill has no purpose existing. Is this truly a bad skill?

It's glass arrows. +20 damage per hit, bleed if blocked. Is this still considered a bad skill?

Winnowing and Favorable Winds with Summon spirits may also justify skill slots, but they can be considered a double edged sword. What do you think?

I'd really like to see if the community can discover some way to make bows useful again. A battle rage warrior can deal around 70 damage per hit in HM by spamming his +40 dmg sword attack skills, so lets see if the Ranger can compete in damage!

Xiaquin · Jun 27, 2011, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Let's go right down the line, I guess.

ED: Almost negligible increase in damage as benefits take a dive past an attribute rank of 12. The maintainable IAS is nice but totally not worth burning your elite. SA/PA requires e-management which is where the elite is usually placed. A for effort, but not a good use of elite.

MW: Very useful in the example above. When Expertise is not enough this is the skill to bring. Mind the fine print.

BHA: Technobabble has power creeped this, leaving it only useful for stubborn foes that absolutely have to be shut down. In those cases there are many ways to mitigate or shut down, leaving this slow, unwieldy skill in the cold.

BA: Still a good skill that can do good damage and carries some synergy when a condition, especially burning itself, is needed. It won't win DPS wars if that's what you want, but effective nonetheless.

IA: Bad on its own, but has potential. Pair it with Ignite Arrows and have someone carry Splinter Weapon to really shine.

QS: Count me in the "no purpose" side. I've yet to have it explained why this skill is better than auto-attacking, as Master of Damage told me it wasn't. If there is a use for it, I'd really like to know.

GA: My elite of choice. Quite simply, if you don't want to mash SA/PA, this is the foundation to a high-damage single-target bow ranger. IMO this is where it's at.

Winnowing and Favorable Winds, while nice, are cumbersome. With such a ridiculous activation and recharge, they're already more trouble than they're worth in most cases. Only through using a party of four rangers do I reach for FW. You do need to watch out for enemy rangers, but it's rare to see more than one or two, and with four on my side, I'm gaining a lot more benefit out of it than the enemy. Winnowing is a much bigger risk, but it could be used in areas where you don't encounter much physical damage.

Lishy · Jun 27, 2011, 08:36 PM // 20:36

So of all of these, the only decent skills are fast activation skills paired up with Glass Arrows, and IA paired with Ignite Arrows and EBSoH?

Well what about this idea? Since a hornbow supposedly stacks with SA/PA, why not combine them with a hero using Judge's Insight for 40% armor penetration? Hunter's Shot may also be a decent addition since it's also fast activation. Maybe it could be a possible use for quick shot? What do you guys think of this idea?

As for technobabble, I really don't see it worth the pve slot, especially considering it works not on bosses, and lasts only 5 seconds. Sure BHA is useless these days?

Lastly, if I may ask, can anyone come up with any burning arrow based builds?

Xiaquin · Jun 27, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

So of all of these, the only decent skills are fast activation skills paired up with Glass Arrows, and IA paired with Ignite Arrows and EBSoH?

I wouldn't say those are the only "decent" skills, since that term is relative. It's best left to a case-by-case basis, although there are some skills, like Hunter's Shot, which really don't belong on any PvE bar.

Quote:

As for technobabble, I really don't see it worth the pve slot, especially considering it works not on bosses, and lasts only 5 seconds. Sure BHA is useless these days?

Technobabble is ok on its own, but try pairing it with Archer's Signet and/or a Silencing bow. As long as you can keep pressure on your target(s) they will be locked out. Still, even this catches flak from the meta, which counts on a mesmer, if not a team that steam rolls everything.

If nothing else, take Concussion Shot. Make it count and it will carry the same load.

X-Plosiv · Jul 07, 2011, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

So of all of these, the only decent skills are fast activation skills paired up with Glass Arrows, and IA paired with Ignite Arrows and EBSoH?

Well what about this idea? Since a hornbow supposedly stacks with SA/PA, why not combine them with a hero using Judge's Insight for 40% armor penetration? Hunter's Shot may also be a decent addition since it's also fast activation. Maybe it could be a possible use for quick shot? What do you guys think of this idea?

As for technobabble, I really don't see it worth the pve slot, especially considering it works not on bosses, and lasts only 5 seconds. Sure BHA is useless these days?

Lastly, if I may ask, can anyone come up with any burning arrow based builds?

I'll have to check at my home, I think I was playing with some Burning arrow based build.

But when it comes to pure DPS, I was surprised yesterday when I was testing one build in areas. In Rragar's Menagerie in HM my maximum single hit was around 220-225, while usually it was 70-150. Did Ruins of Morah (that one with Varesh) and have hit her usually around 104, but went up to 190 per hit.

I'll have to go and check with that Masters on Isle, and will post results then.

Lishy · Jul 07, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Please do. I am curious so as to what in the world would let a bow deal 220 damage o.O

X-Plosiv · Jul 07, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

OgYToyLnT6VK0jxAV6xYmcX0WAA

I use Recurve bow with 15 50, hp +30, dmg 20% (customize) and FIERY.

Pop 6,7,1...and try with 2...that brings biggest dmg, 3 and 4 less, and 5 is a skill i tend to carry almost on every b uild

EDIT:

Last skill you change depends on what enemies you are going to get...plus then you remove grip on bow as well...

i've been having getting nice results with it

Xiaquin · Jul 07, 2011, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Are you sure you didn't mean to have EBSoH, not EVAS? Otherwise is similar to what I run, I just opt for a companion instead of a Conjure.

Amy Awien · Jul 07, 2011, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

Please do. I am curious so as to what in the world would let a bow deal 220 damage o.O

Critting with holy damage against undead could yield such numbers. But other then that, I would be interested in this magic as well.

X-Plosiv · Jul 07, 2011, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Scroll up, I've posted build. I use EVAS, i like him for more reasons. But i might swap him for Ebsoh, that might yeld a bit more dmg

Amy Awien · Jul 07, 2011, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I reckon EVAS for aiding a quick kill, EBSoH for more sustained damage. The net effect of EBSoH depends on usage for the entire team. I've used on melee rangers with minions and currently EBSoH + Bone Fiends cuts through HM vanquishes.

I've used something like that before they nerfed Asuran Scan and no matter how good it was 200+ hits were not a regular occurrence in HM. Anyway, a (spike) turret needs to kill fast so time-to-kill 100AL is a more interesting measure.

Lishy · Jul 07, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Conjure is about 14 damage, glass arrows is 20. While I am the Strongest is around another 20.

Each hit is 20+20+14 damage, which is 54. Using triple shot you achieve 54x3= 162 armor ignoring damage, not counting bow. But considering HM and reduced by triple shot, let's assume each shot deals 10 damage. So 162+(10x3)= 192 damage total, once every 20 seconds due to I am the Strongest recharge.

Hrm.. Sounds good on paper, but will it blend?

Wenspire · Jul 08, 2011, 02:06 AM // 02:06

It looks good, but I am skeptical about having enough EN to upkeep that for long durations.

cataphract · Jul 08, 2011, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

Conjure is about 14 damage, glass arrows is 20. While I am the Strongest is around another 20.

Each hit is 20+20+14 damage, which is 54. Using triple shot you achieve 54x3= 162 armor ignoring damage, not counting bow. But considering HM and reduced by triple shot, let's assume each shot deals 10 damage. So 162+(10x3)= 192 damage total, once every 20 seconds due to I am the Strongest recharge.

Hrm.. Sounds good on paper, but will it blend?

Conjure deals ele damage which isn't armor-ignoring. My build of preference is BA, Triple Shot, RTW, "I am the Strongest", Frenzy, Savage Shot. I've always liked BA (burninating stuff ftw) and Frenzy is a really great IAS stance. Use a vamp bow and a hero with splinter. Fun.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 08, 2011, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Conjure deals ele damage which isn't armor-ignoring.

Incorrect. Whether a packet of damage is physical or elemental (or neither) actually has no bearing on whether it is armor ignoring or not*. Conjure damage is not reduced by armor.

*You can see this with Splinter Weapon, which is armor ignoring but triggers MoP.

cataphract · Jul 08, 2011, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Interesting. I have to admit I've rarely, if ever, used ele conjures as R/E would mean losing Frenzy which I love.

Ugh · Jul 08, 2011, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

So 162+(10x3)= 192 damage total, once every 20 seconds due to I am the Strongest recharge.

Hrm.. Sounds good on paper, but will it blend?

No. Trip and Dual recharges are too long to be truly effective and there's no IAS, so spikes are far apart and the dps between the spikes is low. Energy management is sub par, so it'll suffer in longer fights.

I I Dreamweaver I I · Jul 11, 2011, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I tested a build that used conjure flame(yes i know about the high energy cost but can be casted out of combat), Rtw and FW or with Glass arrows as an elite which has worked quite well in increasing DPshot of auto attack, and combined with low energy attack skills yeilded high damage . . . and without the expected energy